Damn starting gremlin!!!

[supraman7mgte]

Has ANYONE ever figured out the starting problem with the Supra???
Sure,there are ways AROUND the issue,but has anyone ever identified the issue?
My car has always been cold blooded,start it up,run to the corner store,and when I get back to the car,it won't start!!
The starter has been replaced,I hear a click from the passenger side kick panel,but she won't start!!
The problem hardly occurs when she has been running at operating temp,but when she's cold,that's another story!!!
In example,I replaced a burnt out bulb on the dash today,reconnected all the plug ins behind the dash,and taa-daa,no start.:aigo:

 

[Turbo Habanero]

I think it has to do with the old wiring not giving the 11.x volts the car needs to start.

Thats why the relay trick is a simple fix for the problem

 

[supraman7mgte]

I've read the 30 amp relay mod,and agree it's a simple fix,how ever it's not suggesting what the real culprit is.
I need a ,"well,there's your problem" type of answer.
I know alot of members have done it,and have had success with it,but I need to understand WHERE the problem might be,could be a neuteral switch,could be meat,could be cake.
All I know is this damn problem is driving me nuts!!

 

[CyFi6]

Do you hear a click from the starter when this happens, or just the kick panel?

 

[raysupra]

yes I had this problem and so has 60% of mk3 owners..

Im not going to type it all soo.... Read this thread.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?150215-Car-didn-t-start-right-away-after-I-washed-it...&p=1771578#post1771578

 

[supraman7mgte]

I get a click from the kick panel,but no start.
I think it could be the neuteral switch

 

[hvyman]

It's the wiring to the starter.

 

[CyFi6]

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=038

It's possible (assuming you have an automatic transmission) that it is the neutral safety switch. Since you can hear the relay click, you don't need to worry about the control side of the relay, but the problem could be wiring, the relay itself, the neutral safety switch, the starter, starter positive cable/connections, or the starter ground. You need to load up the circuit and start checking voltage drops. Have someone hold the key in the start position when it is acting up and do a volt drop of the starter positive wire, the starter ground, and the starter switch circuit (the blue wire with brown clip that clips onto the starter). Nothing should have more than around a .5v drop.

 

[supraman7mgte]

Well.after alot of bitchin and complaining,she finally started!
Odd thing is,that it would not start in park,so I dropped into neuteral and pressed the shift lock over ride button and it started!
I drove it around to get to normal operating temp,parked it,and began the process of letting it idle,turning off the ignition and re-starting it over and over.
Each time it started without a hitch.One thing that puzzled me was that it did die once needing the put-it-in-neuteral and crossing my fingers technique.
But now in the car port it starts everytime....hmmm
Cold blooded bitch...

 

[CyFi6]

Lol, funny how things always act up when you don't want them to, and never act up when you do want them to.

 

[supraman7mgte]

I think it might just be the n safety switch,time to order a replacement

 

[jetjock]

I'm anyone. It isn't meat or cake.

 

[aloshan]

as many others I have had this problem before even after replacing my starter. It so happened my problem was a combination of major parasitic drain + worn copper contacts + shitty wiring from battery to starter.

step 1- make sure you battery has and can hold charge. Clean the terminals and make sure all connections are tight
step 2 - make sure your alternator isn't draining your battery (or any other drain beyond what is acceptable)
step 3 - check you wiring from your battery to the starter. Make sure its seeing as to close to the same amount of volts at the battery when you are cranking
step 4 - Lastly if this still happens , check your starter , while you are having a look you may as well replace the plunger and copper contacts.Purchase them with the link below (only $27)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250928362862?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

If after all this you are still having intermittent starting problems, take it to an autoelec. As suggested the problem may lie with the safety switch and/or the wiring to the ignition. If you have to buy an ignition switch ,it can be found here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOYOTA-CAMRY-CELICA-CORONA-SUPRA-IGNITION-SWITCH-NEW-/300523970364?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f89fdf3c




Cheers

 

[te72]

I'm anyone. It isn't meat or cake.

I get the feeling you've already answered this question a couple times, and the trick is finding your post, interpreting it, then fixing it...

Only problem I've ever had with the starter was that every once in a great while, it just won't turn the motor. I've heard it's a "flat spot", I've never looked into what that means, if you blip the key enough times, it eventually grabs and cranks just fine.

And someone mentioned that you need 11.xx volts to start? The volt readout on my turbo timer drops down to the low 9's for a moment when starting, and I've seen similar drop in most cars I've driven...

 

[jetjock]

I've never definitively answered the question because the cause isn't always the same. It's always one of a very few things however. I'm talking about a loss of ampacity in the starter signal circuit mind you, not the other no-crank issues often mistaken for it. And yeah, pinpointing exactly what's behind it on any given car is easy. All it takes is a voltmeter and a headlamp or two. Or an electronic load, which is what I use.

A flat spot is usually caused by worn solenoid contacts, brushes, or commutator although it also be also caused by high resistance in the trigger circuit. If so it'll usually get worse over time due to arcing, especially when occurring on the high current side.

It's normal for battery voltage to sag under cranking load. How much it drops, when measured at the battery and assuming said battery is fully charged, is one indication of the battery's health. Nine volts is getting down there.

 

[Backlash2032]

And someone mentioned that you need 11.xx volts to start? The volt readout on my turbo timer drops down to the low 9's for a moment when starting, and I've seen similar drop in most cars I've driven...

You need 11.xx volts to have the solenoid engage, not for the starter to turn. I'm fairly certain atleast

 

[jetjock]

It's not about voltage. It's about ohm's law.

 

[te72]

A flat spot is usually caused by worn solenoid contacts, brushes, or commutator although it also be also caused by high resistance in the trigger circuit. If so it'll usually get worse over time due to arcing, especially when occurring on the high current side.

It's normal for battery voltage to sag under cranking load. How much it drops, when measured at the battery and assuming said battery is fully charged, is one indication of the battery's health. Nine volts is getting down there.

Interesting... I'll be replacing the starter when we put the good bits from the 89 onto the 87 sometime next spring anyway, so I wasn't too worried about it. It's infrequent at best in my case.

As for the battery, I can't say for certain where the turbo timer gets it's readout from, and it only drops into the 9's briefly when the cranking load seems at it's highest. The battery is barely a year old at this point, but that's good to know regardless. Usually as soon as it drops into the 9's when cranking, it quickly picks up to 10-11v, and by then it's running. I know full well a car with a battery that stays in the 9's when cranking is needing replacement sooner than later, my Chevys always did that eventually.

 

[mirage83]

With mine I've isolated the problem to the ignition switch wiring. Haven't taken it further than that yet, and haven't gotten around to replacing and re-keying it to the door locks, but that's where the problem with my '88 is hiding.

 

[3p141592654]

The ignition switch, the electrical part that is, can be changed without touching the key cylinder or needing to re-key anything.