blue smoke and rough powerband after head job

[all4mx]

Ok, I searched and couldn't find anything that would help. I have an 88' turbo. I took it into the shop to have a 2.0 metal head gasket installed (not because it was blown, but because I wanted to). They put it on wrong the first time and didn't remove some of the rivets, so it leaked down the block. At this point the car ran great and dynoed at 412. I took it back and told them they needed to fix it. They ordered a new 2.0 mhg and put it on. They had the block and head resurfaced both times. They tried to give it to me today and it smokes (blue) when cold and hot and stumbles at idle as well as the rest of the powerband????? I would take it somewhere else, but already paid them. As of now they have no idea what the problem is and I am trying to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.:nono:

-60-1 CT26
-aluminum rad.
-walbro 255
-safcII
-550's
-lex. afm
-stage 2 clutch
-flex-a-lite dual fans
-alum. flywheel
-cooleeze intercooler piping
-sparco intercooler
-J tube removal
-egr removal
-greddy rs bov.
-cometic 2.0 mhg
- probably more??????

 

[all4mx]

Ok, I searched and couldn't find anything that would help. I have an 88' turbo. I took it into the shop to have a 2.0 metal head gasket installed (not because it was blown, but because I wanted to). They put it on wrong the first time and didn't remove some of the rivets, so it leaked down the block. At this point the car ran great and dynoed at 412. I took it back and told them they needed to fix it. They ordered a new 2.0 mhg and put it on. They had the block and head resurfaced both times. They tried to give it to me today and it smokes (blue) when cold and hot and stumbles at idle as well as the rest of the powerband????? I would take it somewhere else, but already paid them. As of now they have no idea what the problem is and I am trying to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.:nono:

-60-1 CT26
-aluminum rad.
-walbro 255
-safcII
-550's
-lex. afm
-stage 2 clutch
-flex-a-lite dual fans
-alum. flywheel
-cooleeze intercooler piping
-spearco intercooler
-J tube removal
-egr removal
-greddy rs bov.
-cometic 2.0 mhg
- probably more??????

 

[Yellow 13]

Does it just smoke at idle or all the time?

Im thinking:
bad valve seals
bad piston rings

If its just smoking at idle its probally your turbo

 

[all4mx]

Does it just smoke at idle or all the time?

Im thinking:
bad valve seals
bad piston rings

If its just smoking at idle its probally your turbo

It's smoking all the time. It ran great w/ no smoke at all when I took it in for mhg job. The motor has only 35k on it. I checked the plugs when I was going to pick it up earlier, 4 out of the 6 were black and all were getting spark. We put new plugs in and it didn't fix the problem.

 

[Yellow 13]

Maybe they installed the HG wrong, didnt torque it right/improper RA spec for the HG/ warped the head removing it.

Can you check the intake to see if any oils getting in? Or check the IC piping for any oil.

 

[all4mx]

Maybe they installed the HG wrong, didnt torque it right/improper RA spec for the HG/ warped the head removing it.

Can you check the intake to see if any oils getting in? Or check the IC piping for any oil.

I will check for oil in the intake tommorrow. What exactly does it mean if there is oil in the intake? Do I check behind the filter or behind the afm, or where is the best place?

 

[Yellow 13]

Sorry I meant in the lower intake plenum (Into the head), but I doubt its that. Just check for oil in the IC piping, between the IC and turbo.

It sounds like your burning oil in the chamber (Black plugs) so its either getting in through the intake, bad piston rings, bad valve seals, improperly installed/bad HG or warped head.

When the shop installed the HG did they use a seal on it such as permatex copper spray?

 

[all4mx]

no, the shop didn't use any kind of sealer or cleaner spray. It just confuses me because it can't be the rings, the motor ran fine without smoking before the hg job. I would hope they got it installed correctly being that it was the second time. They said that they removed the neccessary rivets this time.

 

[Boss302]

do a comp. check.......your not hearing any pooping noise or anything are you? if you were the head gasket isn't on right if not pistons. but it's most likely the gasket casue the motor is so young. there isn't any oil leaking out the sides is there either between the head and block? thats the sure fire way to tell.

 

[all4mx]

do a comp. check.......your not hearing any pooping noise or anything are you? if you were the head gasket isn't on right if not pistons. but it's most likely the gasket casue the motor is so young. there isn't any oil leaking out the sides is there either between the head and block? thats the sure fire way to tell.

I got more info. The shop said that there is seroius blow-by in the number one cylinder and that it keeps blowing the valve cover seal. They said that there is low compression in number one cylinder. Obviously they didn't clean up well after trueing up the block surface. They must have left debri in the cylinder and scored up the ring. They are saying that it is not their fault and that they won't fix it. After all that I have been through with these people, I am done with them. They are getting served in the next couple of days for small claims court.:icon_evil

 

[Jaguar_5]

This was in WA? What Shop?

 

[arz]

I skimmed real fast but what struck me funny was this.

They had the block and head resurfaced both times.

If they did the block, did they remove the motor form the vehicle? Did they remove the pistons form the block? I know a thousand people will disagree with me but you dont NEED to deck the block to do a MHG and they you definately dont need to do it a second time. And if you want to push the point you dont even NEED to buy a different MHG, I know lots of people that have reused them with lots of miles let alone the few you put on yours.

I agree, this shop IS responsible for ANY change in compression between the first and second tear down.

If I was a disgrunteled mechanic and had to do this job a second time (for free) I would guess he wouldnt be necessairly gentle with yanking everything the second time. Maybe he set the head (down a little to hard) on one of the valves on the #1 cylinder. Not likely but possible. Have them do a leak down test also. Compression tests dont tell the whole story, neither does a leak down, but they do tell slightly different stories and, pieceing the two stories together might answer more questions before you spend more money.

this also sounds like a "Blowin smoke up your ass story."

The shop said that there is seroius blow-by in the number one cylinder and that it keeps blowing the valve cover seal.

Since the cam/valve covers have a huge vent thats plumbed back to, post AFM, pre turbo (the accordian tube) I dont see how it could blow out the cam cover gasket. Im not saying its impossible, but has anybody else seen a blown cam cover cover gasket due to blow by? It would have to be a hell of a lot of blow-by and you would for sure have oil in the accordian tube.

 

[Boss302]

unless there id oil leaking out the cover.......:bsflag:

 

[all4mx]

unless there id oil leaking out the cover.......:bsflag:

Olympia, WA. Hawks Prairie Automotive. I have to go get my car with a trailer today. They won't put it back together!!!

 

[plaaya69]

When they resurfaced the block did they leave the lower rear timming cover on the block? If not then that could cause low compression because it will not seal good.

 

[arz]

^^^ Yea your exactly right ^^^

I didnt think about that. The Machine shop did that to my motor too but caught it before I assembled it.

There are 2 timing covers the outside (forward one) and the inside (aft one) the aft cover is directly on the front of the block. It needs to be machined back to the same height the block was decked to. Also there is a huge oil return galley right there in front and that might provide a route to the crank case big enough to blow a valve/cam cover gasket.

Its not that complicated of a motor but I see it all the time shops that build chevy and ford V8's always drop the ball when you give them anything different.

 

[all4mx]

well I got the car back again today. % don't know what to do. maybe a lawsuit. I have spent thousands and thousands at this shop and it is worse now than when it started. They "say" I have low compression in #1 cylinder(which mysteriously happenned between one of the head gasket jobs). I have quit a bit of oil coming out of the air filter and the BOV. When I take the oil cap off, it has a lot of smoke and blow by sound coming out of it. There is also some, but not much of a sign of a milky color under the cap. If they didn't machine the inner timing cover at all on any of the three head gasket jobs, could this be why, or is it a ring or piston. I am getting pissed off at this shop, I have dumped about 20k into my car and this shop has gone through 2 motors and three MLS head gaskets. I have only driven the car a total of about 150 miles since this project started and am fed up. someone help or please give me some advise.
thanks

 

[arz]

If all the other cylinders test good for a compression test or leak down test then I would guess it was the inner front cover for sure.

You will never know if you dont take it apart. If they said they didnt machine down the top of the inner front cover then that has to be it. That shop is a bunch of idiots, 1 to admit to this and 2 to think that a block and head that were just resurfaced need to be resurfaced again.

Good luck, I dont know what else to tell you. You have to take it apart to find the problem.

Do a compression test and a leak down test to see if they tell you something about the valves.

Im guessing its the front cover thing though. IT HAS TO BE SURFACED THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE BLOCK.

 

[all4mx]

How do I do a leak down test? I know how to do the compression test and I have the tester.

 

[KINGPIN33]

How do I do a leak down test? I know how to do the compression test and I have the tester.

I agree with what you guys said above... the mechanic forgot to machinet the block's timing cover at the same time resulting in low compression in #1.

You need to purchase a leak down tester unit i believe