Another Supra, Another Problem

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Jacksonville/Nebraska
Long story short, I found a good deal on a supra that supposably ran; went to pick it up, didn't start up, got a better deal plus some goodies.
I brought it home and figured I could diagnose the problem. I've gone through pretty much everything I can think of to figure it out, but still nothing. I'm paying to keep my car where it's at, so I need to figure this out decently fast.
Some background: 87, 5 speed, turbo, no p/s, no a/c, electric fans, open downpipe, fuel cell. Somebody must've been building a cheap racecar.

Now, it's getting fuel. It has compression. It has spark. But it just cranks all day. It'll "backfire," as in popping in the exhaust sometimes when cranking. The P/O said he had it running with starting fluid about a month ago, hasn't worked for me. I checked codes, only thing that came up was code 14.

Code 14 is a tricky one. I read everything jetjock has posted about what it's about, and I guess I don't full know how to narrow it down. It's either the coil pack, igniter, ecu, or wiring somewhere in between. I'm guessing the wiring, as there's some amateur wiring throughout the car. The plug wires have resistance, the plugs are good, the coil pack is grounded, I think the coil pack ohmed out in spec, the wiring harness off the coil pack is good, I don't have a 3V battery source to test the igniter, but it seems a little corroded. I took it apart and did the redundant grounding mod jetjock has a post about.
I know the ecu is cutting fuel because, even though it's sparking, the igniter is telling the ecu it didn't spark.

What I'd like to know, is a simplified answer as to what to check out. I'm thinking about just buying a known good igniter/coil pack off here and swapping them out, but I'd like to test if it's something else first. Is there a way to test if the wiring is good between the ecu and the igniter withouth ripping the harness out and visually inspecting the wires?
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
By getting fuel you must mean the pump is running because tt won't inject once a 14 is set. If it's really sparking and you can't signal trace IGf (and suspect wiring) try temporarily running a wire from the igniter to the ecu.
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Yes, I loosened one of the fuel line bolts on the fuel rail and jumped the diag. box so the fuel pump would activate. Pumped fuel out.

Does code 14 also cut spark, or just fuel when it occurs? Because I've tried a couple different spark testing tools, and found to have no spark. But I don't think they were working correctly. I put a little starting fluid in the throttle body, and it backfired and caught fire for a couple seconds. No damage, but yeah, won't be doing that again...
 
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Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Jacksonville/Nebraska
I tried running a new wire for the IGf. Didn't change anything. So I ran wires for the IGt, IDGa, and IDGb as well. Nothing. So I guess my suspicion of shotty wiring was false.

Also, I tested resistance on the coil pack harness and wires between the coil pack harness and the igniter. All checked out fine. The connectors are all good, although the wiring on the coil pack harness seems a little sketchy.

I'm thinking it's the coil packs, as I tested them, and they have 12v to them, but when I checked resistance they all have .9-1.2 ohms. TSRM spec is .3-.5 ohms.

Also, the ECU grounds (e1,e01, e02) are grounded to the block. I know they're supposed to be grounded to the intake manifold, but would this effect anything?
I can't think of anything else it could be. If it's not wiring, and igniters/coil packs/ecu's don't typically fail, that doesn't leave much to diagnose.
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Nope I'm down in Pensacola now, otherwise that'd be awesome. I think I'm just going to buy some used coilpacks/igniter.

I didn't test the packs today because I don't have a 12v source, but I rechecked spark and found out something weird..
Cylinders 4 and 6 have spark. Cylinders 1 and 5 don't. 2 and 3 I didn't get around to testing. But it's kind of weird since 1 and 6 are connected to the same pack. The plug wires all have the same resistance.

The CPS ohmed out within spec, not sure about the air gaps.
Moved to ECU grounds to the intake mani where they're supposed to be.
Redid the ground from the block to the firewall. Coil pack ground is good.
Shouldn't have anything to do with grounding. Wiring is all testing out. CPS tested fine. That leaves ECU, coil pack, and igniter.

Am I missing anything? Overlooking something basic? Or would it be safe to say it's probably the coil pack or igniter?
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Jacksonville/Nebraska
3p141592654;2000261 said:
I'm confused. First post says but then later posts seem to contradict that.

Does you rmeter have any scope capability? Would want to look at whats on IGt if you can while cranking.

I was assuming it had spark as I could hear popping in the exhaust as if it were firing but not starting; also when the starting fluid ignited in the throttle body, something had to spark it.
When I originally tested spark, the tool I was using wasn't working properly. Or I didn't set it up right.. who knows. But when I tested yesterday, I got those weird results.

Also, I'm not sure if my meter does or not. It's just a generic multimeter, nothing special. The place I'm working on my car at lets me rent out all their tools though, so I'm sure they have one.
I'm not big on electrical though, so I'd have to look into what's needed and how to do it. Always learning..
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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So an update to this..

Still cant get it to turn over. Found out there was spark on 2, 3, 4 and 6. No spark on 1 and 5. So I bought a new coilpack. There's spark across all the cylinders now.
Ordered new plug wires. Just for safe measure, these seem a little old anyways.
Should get the new igniter here soon. I'm really hoping that's the problem.

All the wiring checks out. I re ran the wires to the igniter. The coil pack has a new harness. I re ran wires to the CPS to make sure it wasn't the wiring in between. No results from anything.
Still only getting a code 14. Other than that, I have no other leads. Maybe a bad ECU, but doubtful.
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Where at in the harness?
Because I've ran temporary wires from the ecu to the igniter and the cps. Also did it between the igniter and the coil packs.
The harness is a little hacked up, but I stripped the plastic off and checked it out by eye. Seemed to be in pretty good shape, but you never know.
 

MkIII FTW

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Aug 31, 2009
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Supra mn;2002414 said:
Where at in the harness?
Because I've ran temporary wires from the ecu to the igniter and the cps. Also did it between the igniter and the coil packs.
The harness is a little hacked up, but I stripped the plastic off and checked it out by eye. Seemed to be in pretty good shape, but you never know.

Well when I opened mine up the wires looked a little corroded but I cleaned them up thinking it would fix the issue. With no avail however. I did some more digging and came to find out that the harness was grounding out some place else thus causing my issue. I ended up changing the whole thing and problem solved. I could have tracked down where it was grounding but was in a time crunch so just swapped it out and haven't had an issue since.
 

Supra mn

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Oct 10, 2012
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Jacksonville/Nebraska
MkIII FTW;2002439 said:
Well when I opened mine up the wires looked a little corroded but I cleaned them up thinking it would fix the issue. With no avail however. I did some more digging and came to find out that the harness was grounding out some place else thus causing my issue. I ended up changing the whole thing and problem solved. I could have tracked down where it was grounding but was in a time crunch so just swapped it out and haven't had an issue since.

Well I'm not exactly sure what it was, but code 14 is gone. After replacing plugs, plug wires, coil packs, igniter, checking all of the wiring, and resetting ignition timing, I figured out that was only the start to my problem.
The car still won't start. But I sprayed starter fluid in the TB while cranking, and it fired up. Ran for probably 15-30 seconds.

So now that leaves me with the whole ghetto fuel setup the previous owner had put in. Fuel cell, cheap fuel pump and filter, rubber lines ran to the j-tube. I have fuel getting to the rail; like I said, I jumped the diag. box and cracked one of the bolts on the fuel rail loose and it squirted out fuel. So I'm either not getting enough fuel pressure, or the injectors are clogged. Or something more than that. Got some time to investigate it this weekend, so i'll be doing some major research. Any helpful links would be appreciated.
 

7M4EVR

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Oct 8, 2012
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fah, fah away
I would try getting a pressure gauge on that rail to see what your pressure is when jumpering. Back when i was troubleshooting my fuel problem i would get a good amount of fuel bubbling over the rail when i cracked the dampner bolt and jumpered the pump. But when i cleared up the restriction it SHOT out with pressure. U can tell the difference.

After u reinstalled all the new parts did u see if u had any new codes pop up?