Alcohol Injection and MAFT

[hottscennessey]

I've been looking into alcohol injection and i came across this.. http://www.snowperformance.net/proddetail.asp?prod=auto023 Its an alcohol injection kit for cars running the GM MAF sensors. If i installed this kit pre-MAF-T (the black box which converts GM to KV), then this looks like it would be a very stable and user friendly setup for alcohol injection. Its pricey, but i'm sure thats just because it includes everything. It seems pretty straight forward, is there anything i'm overlooking? Thoughts? Comments?

 

[hottscennessey]

Just thought i'd add on a question that i cannot find the answer to.. if i did run methanol injection, would it throw off my AFR, and by how much? would it richen it or lean it?

 

[turbobob]

Alcohol is a fuel, it richens the mixture.



Check out www.alkycontrol.com also.

 

[hottscennessey]

I've got some more questions on this topic.. how hard is it to tune for meth injection.. i heard it was different?

Can a wideband o2 be used?

 

[IHI-RHC7]

Summit sells the same kit for 389.
I'd run it and use the MAFT aux knob to pull fuel when the meth is squirting.
I'd not use the GM particular one, it is designed to reference Airflow as boost, which is pointless as the basic kit includes a boost sensor. It is progressive, which the MAFT is not.
Basically, it adds more methanol as boost pressure increases (8-30 psi kit) and the AUX knob will subtract X% fuel from the Mix and while add timing consequently, which should be ok since meth injection severely hampers detonation. Anyway, if you are adding more and more methanol as boost increases and you subtract a certain % of fuel from the base map, you will have a poor tune.
But if you use the AUX knob to get a baseline and then tune using the rpm based knobs, you should be able to get a good tune and more power at the same boost levels thanks to the increased timing.
I love your product Bob.

 

[turbobob]

Summit sells the same kit for 389.
I'd run it and use the MAFT aux knob to pull fuel when the meth is squirting.
I'd not use the GM particular one, it is designed to reference Airflow as boost, which is pointless as the basic kit includes a boost sensor. It is progressive, which the MAFT is not.
Basically, it adds more methanol as boost pressure increases (8-30 psi kit) and the AUX knob will subtract X% fuel from the Mix and while add timing consequently, which should be ok since meth injection severely hampers detonation. Anyway, if you are adding more and more methanol as boost increases and you subtract a certain % of fuel from the base map, you will have a poor tune.
But if you use the AUX knob to get a baseline and then tune using the rpm based knobs, you should be able to get a good tune and more power at the same boost levels thanks to the increased timing.
I love your product Bob.

:biggrinki

News guys: for those not wanting to go for the MAFT Pro and everything it has, we are now going to make its little brother, the MAFT Gen-II.

Pics are here:Clicky

It has no speed density, and no boost control. It does have wideband tracking, a window switch output, and much more tunability than the old MAFt. It can take any MAF in and translate to any MAF out (volts, freq, KV, whatever)

It has really good Aux tuning ability, and the AFR tracking works with the alky really well.

Availability in about 3-4 weeks. They are RUNNING in beta test. Just have to finish the software, user manual, and get some built.

As always, Dr. Jonez will be the Supra contact for these if he wants to be.

The main harness is wired exactly the same as the MAFT Pro, so the upgrade path is really easy.....

We will still make the old MAFT as long as there is demand.

B

 

[88SupraTurbo]

im not sure if this is the right place to ask, and if it isnt please point me in the right direction... but ya, PRICE?

 

[turbobob]

269.00 is the plan.

 

[88SupraTurbo]

i can definatly deal with that, i think this may be the perfect solution for me. What all do i gain over the original maf-t, and what are the exact things i lose with the maft pro? Thanks, you guys are great.

 

[hottscennessey]

That sounds awesome Bob, I'll definately get one because i absolutely love the way my car runs with the GM MAF, and have no need to go speed density. If you have the AFR tracking then that makes it even better!

-ps anyone wanna buy a MAF-T in a few months? lol

 

[hottscennessey]

Back to alcohol injection.. where do its limitations come about? How much boost could be run without knock or detonation?

There are people who wont run them because they fear the pump failing. Is there really a failsafe kit for a universal platform?

Is watching water pressure good enough to see if your pumps failing?

 

[hottscennessey]

Summit sells the same kit for 389.
I'd run it and use the MAFT aux knob to pull fuel when the meth is squirting.
I'd not use the GM particular one, it is designed to reference Airflow as boost, which is pointless as the basic kit includes a boost sensor. It is progressive, which the MAFT is not.
Basically, it adds more methanol as boost pressure increases (8-30 psi kit) and the AUX knob will subtract X% fuel from the Mix and while add timing consequently, which should be ok since meth injection severely hampers detonation. Anyway, if you are adding more and more methanol as boost increases and you subtract a certain % of fuel from the base map, you will have a poor tune.
But if you use the AUX knob to get a baseline and then tune using the rpm based knobs, you should be able to get a good tune and more power at the same boost levels thanks to the increased timing.
I love your product Bob.

Okay, it took me awhile to understand what you were saying, its early. lol. But you're saying that It would be too much of a pain to try and tune with the a MAF specific sensor because the more boost i run, the more meth it will inject; and it will inject more as the boost rises. Correct? You think i should run a standard kit with a PSI switch (once it reaches a certain psi a certain ammount of meth is injected). If i went with the previous kit, I could have it activate at or near my full boost, which would make my tuning much easier. Is that right? I still have some things to grasp, but i really like the benefits of meth injection.

 

[mixmastermatt]

I had the universal kit from here:

www.devilsownonline.com

It worked great for my sentra, which was MAF based. I had a 5gph nozzled placed about 5" from the throttle plate and the pressure switch was set @ 7psi. My EGT's prior to were about 1200-1400 @wot and 10psi, after the alky install my EGTs were 900-1100 @ wot. I was also able to regain a lot of my timing back and AFR's were more consistant. Once I really start working on the supra, I'll be using the same kit from my sentra.

 

[Fuzz420]

Just as soon as one of these badboys are n/a compatible, i'd be on it like stinch on 3day old underwear.

 

[hottscennessey]

They actually are N/A compatable, they use the throttle signal and activate around WOT. You can bump the timing a lot.

thanks for that site MixMasterMatt, I'll check it out
what size nozzle would you suggest for the supra? or one making
400whp prior to meth/alc injection?

 

[mixmastermatt]

I'd get a 10gph nozzle, then regulate with pump pressure as necessary. I'd also invest in the solenoid so that the system is pressurized up to the solenoid and will insure a better delivery. Also, add a pump running light, pressure sensing light and solenoid open light. That way you know when the pump is on, where the pressure switch is set and if the solenoid is opening.

 

[Fuzz420]

They actually are N/A compatable, they use the throttle signal and activate around WOT. You can bump the timing a lot.

thanks for that site MixMasterMatt, I'll check it out
what size nozzle would you suggest for the supra? or one making
400whp prior to meth/alc injection?

Thats great and all, but the features its lacking is what i want the most, because i have no plans of staying n/a. Ill continue to hold out, if the pro never becomes compatible then ill settle for "second place".But this really gives me hope

 

[IHI-RHC7]

The reason I'd use the AUX function to pull fuel is because if the meth pressure isn't there, the auf won't be tripped and you will run rich and pull timing. (read Failsafe)

 

[hottscennessey]

Oh yea, I read that but i forgot to incorperate it. lol. How do you set up the aux function? I was looking through the directions and all i could find to use it for was setting a base setting and FCD setting. When it RPM mode it is used to lean and richen the overall mixture when aux is activate via trigger wire.

 

[hottscennessey]

anyone, Bob?