Air conditioning flush

[CyFi6]

Long version of problem located here.
http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=19729

Basic version: I think when filling my AC system, i overfilled the oil. I had no idea how much was in there, and put more oil in because i would rather be safe than sorry. Long story short, the AC does not blow as cool as i want it to, and i thin it is because i overfilled the oil. My question is, how to i get this oil out? I have heard of flushing the system, but it says you cannot flush through the compressor or expansion valve, and doesnt the compressor and evaporator hold a lot of oil? How to you get all that oil out so i can start from the beginning.

Ideally, i would like to get this whole system flushed out, and have a professional refill it with the proper oil and r12 and all, but this will cost a pretty penny. I am willing to fork over some money to get the system working right, but will any shops even work on a system that has this hydrocarbon refrigerant in it? Will they not just refuse to service it? How should i go about this?

Thanks for any help.

 

[sneakypete]

you added oil to the compressor, or refrigerant to the system?

most reputable places will service your car. R12 isnt available to most places, so they will likely have to convert your system to r134. meaning they will have to completely evacuate the refrigerant and install the proper r134 fittings so they can charge the system.
i do remember hearing somewhere that you can get all the fittings to update our cars to r134 but i dont remember where.
just so you know, you cant evacuate the old r12 yourself unless you have the proper equipment.
-pete

 

[CyFi6]

i added oil to the system through an aerosol can right before adding the refrigerant. It has a hydrocarbon refrigerant in it, which is why i am unsure if a shop will work on it or not

 

[sneakypete]

in that case i have no idea what your talking about. as far as i know, you add refrigerant to the system through the AC lines.

 

[Kckazdude]

You could call around to a few shops and see if they will evacuate your system for you so you can flush or let them flush it out. Another option is one that happens all time. Just take it to a shop and have them evacuate the system without telling them what is in the system.

Just a side note. The majority of the oil in the A/C system is in the compressor.

 

[CyFi6]

Ok. I have an oil charge can as seen here
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/19/t/oil-charge-3/details.asp

I had the car evacuated, replaced the receiver dryer. After this I filled the oil charge into the low side port. After i filled that, i filled a hydrocarbon refrigerant into the low side port using small cans, much like the small 134a cans. I filled it to the proper pressure and im not getting cold enough air. I am pretty sure there is too much oil in the system, causing this issue. I want to have the system flushed, and add the proper amount of oil to a dry system so i know how much is in there, and then charge it with r12. What i want to know is how do i go about doing this, as i am pretty sure no shop will service an AC system with a hydrocarbon refrigerant in it, as it might damage their equipment.

I see there is no drain on the compressor, so must i remove it and turn it upside down to get the oil out?


Also, how do i flush the evaporator if you are not supposed to flush through the expansion valve?

 

[jetjock]

No, a shop won't touch it now and expect to get beat up over on that forum for using ES 12. I should beat on you too but I won't. It does appear the oil wasn't needed. Why didn't you do a flush and just convert to 134 after doing all that work?

 

[CyFi6]

I have read MANY sucess stories using hydrocarbon refrigerant, and i used it successfully in my mr2, it blew colder than i could ask. Also, i read that the hydrocarbon refrigerant has lower pressures and is easier on the compressor, and if anything thats better for my 25 year old equiptment. I was under the impression that this refrigerant did a better job of cooling, so i went with it. I can evacuate the system myself, and if i do that, will a shop flush the whole system and fill with r12? If i just give them an empty system that has "been opened" can i ask them to flush and fill with r12? or will they still see the remnants of the es12 and refuse?

 

[jetjock]

First off ES12 is illegal. It's not an approved refrigerant under the EPA's Snap Program. Butane or propane blows cold too but would you put it in there? I would've used an alternate like Freeze 12 before I used an HC blend. At least F-12 is 80% 134 even though it has it's own issues.

If you take it to a shop they will as a matter of routine use an identifier on it. Best to tell them up front but they're not going to contaminate either their recovery machine or their stock of used refrigerant.

You can dump it to the air, do a flush, and go with 134. Better would be to bite the bullet and use 12. You should be able to get it for around $50/lb. Or you could do a flush, drain the comp, and start over with HC.

 

[CyFi6]

I want to do a flush myself, but not only do i not know how to do it properly, i dont have access to any of the tools i need to do it. Ideally i would like the system to be flushed by a professional and filled with R12 by a professional, as i dont think i am qualified enough to get the system working 100% The question is though, is will anyone actually flush the system for me. If i dump the current refrigerant out to the air, and bring the shop the empty, open system, will they still evac it before flushing?

Thanks for all the help you guys.

In other words, if i just dump the stuff out to air, bring them my open system and ask them to flush it, are they still going to try to ID what is in the system first before flushing?

 

[jetjock]

You're not going to hurt anything by dumping a bit of HC. Just don't let anyone see you doing it. You could blow some air through it just for grins but if you bring them an open system they'll be none the wiser and even if they are they're not going to care because they won't be using their recovery machine. Even if they did traces won't hurt it.

That said flushing isn't hard nor expensive. You can do it then bring them a clean system. Hell, what was all the research for? Don't stop now...

 

[starscream5000]

You can get all the tools needed (minus the air compressor) to vacuum the AC and read high and low side pressures for around $100.00

This should include costs of the R134a conversion kit as well.

 

[HommerSimpson]

well ... first you can remove the freon... best to take to shop but removing a line or many other ways....

after all the freon is out you need to remove compressor... and drain oil out... holding in upside down ...turn compressor over by hand... most will come out... then remove the line going to firewall... Leave evap and exp valve alone..

best to use dry nitrogen.. but air thats filterd good will work...gently blow threw the condensor.. and the lines... then you need to pour in some a/c flush... you can get at any auto parts... you need to pour it in the condensor and then blow it threw till it starts coming out then add some more.. to make sure the condensor got a good amount in it threw out...

let sit for just a bit.. 15- 30 minuts i think it recomends.. then blow it all out real good and put system back together..

now.. the most importaint thing... vacuum it down for atleast 30 minuts if you used dry nitrogen to blow out.. and no lesss then 1 hr if you used compress air.. ALL THE WATER MUST BE REMOVED.........

i would add 6 oz peg oil and 19 oz of r134 and check guages... add no more then total of 25 oz. R 134.....

if you dont have a vacuum pump ... make sure you put retro fittings on and take it to a shop to have them, vacuum it down.. that is a must... no if ands or butts about it..

 

[CyFi6]

Air is the biggest problem, i have no means of using compressed air as of right now. What kind of pricing do you think i am looking at if i were to release the hydrocarbon refrigerant, and have the system flushed professionally. From there i could fill the needed oil and r134A myself. ( No license to buy r12, and it is expensive.) The biggest issue right now is time, i only have about 2 weeks until i need the system working 100%. I am not going to Arizona without a working air conditioner, that is for sure haha.

Also, how much would it cost to have the shop do the flush and fill of refrigerant? I really do not think i want to do the flush myself, as it seems rather time consuming and i dont have access to tools, and i would not be confident that i really knew what i was doing (making sure i got 100% of the flush out, where exactly to put the flush, what parts to flush). I would much rather prefer a shop do the charge of the refrigerant, mostly because the AC is something i want working as well as it possibly can. As much as i know about this AC stuff, i don't think i am competent enough again to get it working its best. I will be learning more with time to come, but right now i am in a crunch and i don't think it is the best time to be experimenting around. Thanks again for all the help its very helpful.


At this point i am not even sure what the problem is with my ac system, it may not be an excessive amount of oil, it could be a bad compressor. Until i have real refrigerant in there (R12 or R134a) though, i dont really have any way of diagnosing the system because the pressures are sort of wacko with this ES12.

 

[starscream5000]

I can't tell how much it will cost as I've never sent mine somewhere to be done and have been able to do it myself. But, whatever you do, DO NOT get R134a with ac stop leak, or ANY additives for that matter, short of leak detection dye, in the can. You'll be replacing more shit soon thereafter if you do.

 

[HommerSimpson]

i would dump freon... then go to shop and just tell them you want the system flushed . pumped down and charged..100+ i would say...prob more like $150

 

[YotaRob]

I have read MANY sucess stories using hydrocarbon refrigerant, and i used it successfully in my mr2, it blew colder than i could ask. Also, i read that the hydrocarbon refrigerant has lower pressures and is easier on the compressor, and if anything thats better for my 25 year old equiptment. I was under the impression that this refrigerant did a better job of cooling, so i went with it. I can evacuate the system myself, and if i do that, will a shop flush the whole system and fill with r12? If i just give them an empty system that has "been opened" can i ask them to flush and fill with r12? or will they still see the remnants of the es12 and refuse?

If it is colder than you could ask for why the HELL would you use the HC. If done well 134a can be colder than what you ask for. I got mine to38degrees on 134a.:3d_frown:

 

[CyFi6]

you added oil to the compressor, or refrigerant to the system?

most reputable places will service your car. R12 isnt available to most places, so they will likely have to convert your system to r134. meaning they will have to completely evacuate the refrigerant and install the proper r134 fittings so they can charge the system.
i do remember hearing somewhere that you can get all the fittings to update our cars to r134 but i dont remember where.
just so you know, you cant evacuate the old r12 yourself unless you have the proper equipment.
-pete

My mr2 was bought with no refrigerant in it, i filled it with HC refrigerant and it worked great, so i thought i would do the same in my Supra.


Anyways, i got a quote from a shop in town, they are asking about $150 for a full flush, and about $150 for a 134a charge, so i think i am going to have the system flushed, buy some real gauges, and fill up the system myself. I believe there is a guide on this website somewhere that can help me along the way a little bit if i need something.

 

[starscream5000]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44138

 

[CyFi6]

Quick question. When filling up R134a, what kind of pressure chart do i use? All the pressure charts i can find are showing static (non running) temp/pressure. When im filling the system, the car is going ot be running, so how do i know what low side pressure to stop at(with car running). Also, when filling the system, do you go purely off pressure? or do you go off amount of refrigerant used?

One other thing, What type of oil do i use with R134a and how do i get it into the system without losing my vacuum? Or do i put it in before i apple a vacuum. I am going to have the shop flush my system and vac it, so how would that work?

Also, i cannot find anywhere in the TSRM what quantity of oil needs to be in the system.

Thanks.