AFM Sensor Check

supra_89_vang

New Member
Dec 29, 2005
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madison
Hello,

I want to know if my 89 turbo air flow meter (AFM) senor is broken. I measure the resistances of the AFM to be about 1.2K ohms at room temperture (25C). Please anyone know if this is broken or not because I am haveing problems with my car when I throttle the car. I chokes and have bad ideling. Please let me know what you think.
Go to this website to double check my measurement
http://www32.brinkster.com/supramanual/

Joe
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Which terminals? The AFM can be tested either while the car is running using a voltmeter with a frequency function (or a scope) or with it unplugged using an ohm meter. Both the air temp signal (THA) and air flow signal (Ks) must be checked.

If you're talking about THA, 1.2K is a bit low but not by a whole lot. That wouldn't cause your symptoms anyway. If it's really an AFM problem you need to focus on the Ks signal. Spill more info and I'll tell you how to do that. And yes, as the man said, always check for codes.
 

KINGPIN33

Member
Apr 3, 2005
183
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Canada
Hi, maybe we can solve this together. I got an 1988 car and I have the same problem too, trying to see if my AFM is any good b/c i threw codes 31,24 while i was on the street and then they went away... I noticed differences in the 2 TSRMS (one 89+ and the other pre 89)

Here is the TSRM page found on a 89+ edition:

FI_096.gif


HERE is the TSRM page I have in my 1988 book:

AFM.jpg



I have an 1988 TSRM that says to test the resistance between the connections of E1, VC and E2. The "air intake temp" sensor reading I got was fine, but my other readings were way off the specified range in my 1988 TSRM using a digital Ohmmeter to test the "frequencies". I'm pretty sure my 88 TSRM said to use an ohmmeter to test everything...

So how do I test the E1, VC and E2 connections with the AFM removed? I use an Ohmmeter like the TSRM says right?

Are the AFMS different between years?

Thanks
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
Yeah, the TSRMs are different after 89. They don't provide some information but the pre 89 skips some things too. For example the 87 has very little about engine lubrication. Since the AFM on N/A cars is a potentiometer vane unit the following applies only to the Karman Vortex AFM used on turbo cars:

THA is referenced to E2 while the Ks signal is referenced to E1. (E1 is chassis ground while E2 is sensor ground). Be sure you're referencing the right pin when you measure.

Electrically the AFM is two distinct circuits: Air flow and Air temp. There is no internal connection between the two. Vc is the power supply for the AFM, Ks is the Karman frequency, and E1 is the Karman power supply ground. THA and E2 are separate and should be measured as such. THA requires no power supply from the ecu as it's just a thermistor.

When you measure E1 and Vc you're measuring the internal circuit that supplies power to the entire Karman section of the AFM and the optical emitter (the led that shines on the internal mirror). When you measure E1 and Ks you're measuring the optical detector, the photo transistor that reports to the ecu what the mirror is doing. This is the signal that represents air flow.

Your AFM should test out with the resistance values specified in the manual but another way is to test it on the car. THA and E1 are simple enough, just ohm across them and see if you get a value that corresponds to the temp. Plug the AFM in, start the car, and measure the voltage between Vc and E1. Should be around 5 vdc. Again, this is the power supply for the Karman section of the AFM and it's common to most of the car's sensors. Because the ecu is digital it supplies everything with 5 volts and without this the AFM will be dead. (The same goes for the throttle position sensor).

Next measure the Ks signal using the frequency function of your meter or a scope. If using a scope you'll see a square wave with an amplitude of 5 volts and the frequency varying with rpm. At idle the amount of air flowing through the AFM should generate about 15-20 hertz. At 2500 rpm it should be around 30-40 hertz.

So in summary:

1) Ohm THA and E2. The resistance must fall within spec for the temp..
2) Check for 5 volts between Vc and E1
3) Check for around 20 hertz (at idle) between Ks and E1, increasing in frequency with rpm.

If you have this the AFM is working. It's best to use a scope to see how clean the Ks signal is but if the car runs and the frequency checks out the odds are everything is as it should be. Of course, you must consider that if the engine is doing something goofy for other reasons the airflow though the AFM will be effected. Hope all that wasn't too confusing.
 
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KINGPIN33

Member
Apr 3, 2005
183
2
18
Canada
WOW! Thanks for your knowledge. Would my car throw a code if my AFM's resistance values between E1-VC and E1-KS are completely off, like by 100kOhm. I meseaured mine and they are totally off but the THA - E2 reading was in spec. I did this all with the AFM removed from the car.

My car ran, but i remember once i had very bad idle and it bogged and almost died. It threw codes 24,31 (AFM related).

Ya think I should conclude that its dead?

Thanks a lot for your expertise.
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
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Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
The THA air temp thermistor is simple and seldom goes out so it's no surprise yours is OK. The Karman side of the thing is where all the real electronics are so yes, if yours is off by 100K something is definitely wrong. Be sure you're measuring right or check it on the car (if you can) as AFMs are a spendy part. You can also put a muffin fan and 5 volt power supply on it to test it off the car but it sounds like yours is Tango Uniform.

The TCCS OBD I system is kind of stupid compared to OBD II. It won't detect a sensor that is mildly shifted. It only detects if a sensor is way out of whack, somethings like an open or short. Odd that you'd get a code 24 (air temp) as you say that checks out so you might want to check the connector or wiring but otherwise, based on your readings and the code 31, I'll go out on a limb and say your AFM is toast.
 

KINGPIN33

Member
Apr 3, 2005
183
2
18
Canada
jetjock said:
The THA air temp thermistor is simple and seldom goes out so it's no surprise yours is OK. The Karman side of the thing is where all the real electronics are so yes, if yours is off by 100K something is definitely wrong. Be sure you're measuring right or check it on the car (if you can) as AFMs are a spendy part. You can also put a muffin fan and 5 volt power supply on it to test it off the car but it sounds like yours is Tango Uniform.

The TCCS OBD I system is kind of stupid compared to OBD II. It won't detect a sensor that is mildly shifted. It only detects if a sensor is way out of whack, somethings like an open or short. Odd that you'd get a code 24 (air temp) as you say that checks out so you might want to check the connector or wiring but otherwise, based on your readings and the code 31, I'll go out on a limb and say your AFM is toast.


Yea, I think I'll test it out of the car with a an external 5 volt power supply. Then I'll know if its shot for sure. I've noticed I've been going through gas fast lately... Maybe this is the cause of it.

Thanks again.
 

supra_89_vang

New Member
Dec 29, 2005
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madison
Thanks alot for the information. I don't know how to check the code, I have never check for codes before and am unsure how to. I measure the AFM with it off the car with a ohmmeter. I have two AFM, one is the stock 89 supra and the other is suppose to be a lexus afm upgrade. Both of them measure the same resistance of 1.2k. My big problems is my car choke when I push the throttle on, bad idleing- car will choke after 30 secs of running and dies.

Let me know how I can check the codes. Thanks

Joe
 

supra_89_vang

New Member
Dec 29, 2005
95
0
0
madison
Thanks alot for the information. I don't know how to check the code, I have never check for codes before and am unsure how to. I measure the AFM with it off the car with a ohmmeter. I have two AFM, one is the stock 89 supra and the other is suppose to be a lexus afm upgrade. Both of them measure the same resistance of 1.2k. My big problems is my car choke when I push the throttle on, bad idleing- car will choke after 30 secs of running and dies.

Let me know how I can check the codes. Thanks

Joe