A/C Guys Help Me

Supra Blues

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Mar 30, 2005
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After a year of not doing anything about it, I finally got my A/C compressor installed. (The A/C system has been open to the air for about a year, I know, bad)

I put two cans of ester oil in it without any refridg. and ran it like that for about 1 hour. Obviously I didn't expect any cold air. I then released most of that and put in about 30 - 40oz of the R134a stuff.

No cold air. The high pressure line at the A/C is HOT but the low pressure side is ambient temp. The receiver/dryer thing (with the sight glass) is hot. I though those were supposed to get cold?

Anyways, no cold air. Now, if I turn the heater on, I don't get any hot air either so I am thinking maybe there is something wrong inside the car with the blend door or something.

Any suggestions or experience? :1zhelp:

Oh and don't flame me. This system has been sitting open for a year. Before that it worked perfectly with the R-12 stuff. Right now, I am just trying to determine that it will, in fact, hold the pressure. Once I determine that it will I am gonna take it somewhere and have a "pro" evac the system and either fill it with the R-12 or do the steps for a proper R134a or Freeze 12 conversion.
 

Iron Tank

Grease Monkey
Mar 30, 2005
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What year is your vehicle? Do you know if is an R12 system? If it is, I wouldnt use anything other than R12. Is your ac system already retrofitted to used R134? Don't just use any refrigerant.
I would at least replace the expansion valve along with the reciever drier since you had the system open for such a long period of time. Who knows how many cridders and debris got into the system when it was open. The tiniest of particles is all thats needed to clog up the orifice of the expansion valve and hinder ac operation. One thing is forsure tho, that reciever drier is most definately saturated with moisture/debis and must be replaced.
I highly doubt the air mix blend door is your problem. If I were you, I'd have a professional properly diagnose and fix your problem.
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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well you are gonna get flamed because if you don't know what you are doing. Why in the name of hell are you even touching it.

First off the oil in an a/c system is circulated by.. THE REFRIDGERANT!! Meaning that without the refridgereant it won't go anywhere!

2nd. You had the system opened to the atmosphere yet you didn't change the dryer canister ,And then you also put refridgerant in the system without evacuation?? what college did you go to? Community college of DURRRR???

real brilliant.....
 

Supra Blues

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Mar 30, 2005
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figgie said:
well you are gonna get flamed because if you don't know what you are doing. Why in the name of hell are you even touching it.

First off the oil in an a/c system is circulated by.. THE REFRIDGERANT!! Meaning that without the refridgereant it won't go anywhere!

2nd. You had the system opened to the atmosphere yet you didn't change the dryer canister ,And then you also put refridgerant in the system without evacuation?? what college did you go to? Community college of DURRRR???

real brilliant.....

Don't be an ASS!!!!!!

I admitted all of what you said in my post. I know what I am doing, that's how I know that I was doing it wrong. My whole point to this is to see if the system will hold and not leak anything BEFORE I go see a pro and get the necessary items replace. I don't car if I break or ruin the compressor as I have two more sitting at home to spare. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a pro to tell me that the system has a leak when I can figure that out on my own.

My question is that because I am not getting HOT air nor COLD air, could there be something wrong with the blend door within the car that is not working.

Oh and don't flame me. This system has been sitting open for a year. Before that it worked perfectly with the R-12 stuff. Right now, I am just trying to determine that it will, in fact, hold the pressure. Once I determine that it will I am gonna take it somewhere and have a "pro" evac the system and either fill it with the R-12 or do the steps for a proper R134a or Freeze 12 conversion.

^ My original post.

Don't be ASSTARD because you didn't read/understand my original post. If you have nothing to add as far as the blend door is concerned then step-off biatch.

Your post really pissed me off Figgie...There is no reason to be a DICK about it and bascially call me a total idiot for all the members to read. JERK!
 
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rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
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figgie said:
well you are gonna get flamed because if you don't know what you are doing. Why in the name of hell are you even touching it.

First off the oil in an a/c system is circulated by.. THE REFRIDGERANT!! Meaning that without the refridgereant it won't go anywhere!

2nd. You had the system opened to the atmosphere yet you didn't change the dryer canister ,And then you also put refridgerant in the system without evacuation?? what college did you go to? Community college of DURRRR???

real brilliant.....

Was all that required? I don't think so
 

Iron Tank

Grease Monkey
Mar 30, 2005
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N. California
Supra Blues said:
My question is that because I am not getting HOT air nor COLD air, could there be something wrong with the blend door within the car that is not working.


Try manually switching the heater control valve and see if you can get hot air. Perhaps the valve is sticking up and not switching. This is usually the cause of the problem and is very common.
 

mrnickleye

Love My Daily Driver !
Jun 8, 2005
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Did the compressor come on after you put in the r134?? There are a couple of pressure switches that will keep it from coming on to protect the compressor.

Did you hear any hissing leaks before you started the car ??

You will need to have the system professionally flushed, then replace the dryer before re-charging for good. I'd leave the expansion valve for now, as it is a BIG JOB to replace, and it is probably ok.

The dryer will be VERY hot to touch when the system is working. The large line coming from the evaporator (inside the car) to the compressor will be cold.

If the compressor is on, and there is a full charge of freon (about 28 oz ?), you can feel the cold pipe to know its working ok. If so, and no cold air inside, the blend doors may need work. Heater works independent, so I don't see why what you've done on a/c will effect it.

I converted mine to r134a 2 years ago, and it works perfectly, with 40* air out the vents. I leave one of those small, 'pocket size' thermometers in the center vent as another info gage. Here, r12 is $65 lb. r134a = $26 lb.
 

figgie

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Mar 30, 2005
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rakkasan said:
Was all that required? I don't think so

Actually it is.

Sometimes stupidity NEEDS to be BEATEN out fo folks. See thpost above. That is plain stupid. And THEN to post.. don't get flamed. I am sorry but if you don't know what you are doing. Then do not touch it!!

Supra Blues said:
I admitted all of what you said in my post. I know what I am doing, that's how I know that I was doing it wrong. My whole point to this is to see if the system will hold and not leak anything BEFORE I go see a pro and get the necessary items replace. I don't car if I break or ruin the compressor as I have two more sitting at home to spare. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars for a pro to tell me that the system has a leak when I can figure that out on my own.

My question is that because I am not getting HOT air nor COLD air, could there be something wrong with the blend door within the car that is not working.



^ My original post.

Don't be ASSTARD because you didn't read/understand my original post. If you have nothing to add as far as the blend door is concerned then step-off biatch.

Your post really pissed me off Figgie...There is no reason to be a DICK about it and bascially call me a total idiot for all the members to read. JERK!

BULLSHIT

If you actually KNEW what you were doing. You would know full well that the way to test for leaks is... PULLING VACUUM AND THE SYSTEM HOLDING IT FOR ONE HOUR!. What you did... absolutely IRRELEVANT as the system at full tilt will be seeing upwards of 200+ psi on the high side!!

and 30-40 oz of refridgerant?

man oh man. Which is it? And did you actually read the tsrm or the under hood sticker to see how much refridgerant the a/c system ACTUALLY NEEDS???
 

Dew511

New Member
Apr 1, 2005
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suprabad said:
Hey Figgie lighten up...you having a bad day or what? No sense beating the shit out someone with a question, Go kick the dog or something.

Yeah Figgie... he messed up and admits it. He was just tryin to work this out on his own. I know you've tried something b4 and fucked it up... every1 has. Give him a break.
 

Adjuster

Supramania Contributor
Some things to consider.
The oil in your open system has absorbed water.
The reciever/dryer in your system is now full of water too, and MUST be replaced.

I've had good success flushing out old oil with "white gas." This is what you buy in 1 gallon conatiners and burn in Colman lamps. (I have not seen it in awhile.) I would use a funnel, and choose a suction hose. Remove the hose at a fitting, gently flex it up so you can pour in the white gas, you only need to fill the hose a little. Then take compressed air with a blower that has a rubber pointed nozzle on it. Plug the hose fitting, and gently use the compressed air to blow the white gas through the system.

Oh, LOL, watch out as the other side of the fitting is going to spray oil and white gas out! Wear goggles and gloves. A long sleave shirt is a good idea too.

Flush it a few times, and you MIGHT remove that crap you put into the system. The oils used for R134a and R12 are NOT compatible. Once the seals have been exposed to R134a, I've been told it's not wise to return to R12 either. The reciever/dryer has to be changed in any course as it's a filter for the oil, contains some as well, and the desicant pack absorbs free water in the sytem.

It has been discussed before, but the R134a is not as effective as R12 in this system build/sized for R12. (R134a based systems are designed larger because it's not as effective, thus you need more of it, and a larger condensor, lines and evap core to make it cool your car correctly.) This may only matter on days when it's 105f with bright sun light. Adding tint to the windows, and use on less hot days might be fine with the R134a.

Here's what I'd do. Get the white gas, and flush your lines. (I don't need to tell you this stuff is flamable right? Even a lit cig, or open flame ANYWHERE near this will burn down your car, and you likely since your going to get sprayed with some oil and white gas residue.)

Flush the system till no more oil comes out. (Might take about 5 times, possibly more since you added all that oil shit to your system.)
Replace the reciever/dryer after you flush the sytem.
Go to an AC shop, and have them pull down a vac on the system to 30mhg, and leave it there for a few HOURS. (Not just an hour, but 1/2 the day if they are not too busy. This is generally the case if your using R12 as not many do anymore, and the R12 equipment is sitting around idle most of the time.) What's going to happen with you pulling vac on the system for so long is the water and oil that is still trapped in your system should be removed. (Water mostly, but some oil will be sucked out too.) In a pure vacume, the water turns to ice, and then vapor and is removed.

If your system holds a vac, it's sealed up and has no leaks.

Charge with R134a since you have already put that in, and contaminated the seals with it. (I'm just hoping you did not turn the remaining R12 type oil into an acid by exposing it to R134a and the water that was in your system. Freon and water equals acid. Wrong types of freon and oil create acids too. and these acids eat your system from the inside out. (First to go usually is the expansion valve, the orifice is enlarged by the acid, it let's too much freon through, and you get reduced cooling as a result since the expanding freon is not in the evaporator long enough to fully expand, it ices up your suction pipes to the compressor when this happens.) Basicly, much of your cooling ability is just cooling pipes in the engine bay. Worthless effect.

There were a few questions about reciever/dryers iceing up, or being cold. It totally depends on how it was designed, and which lines the R/D is placed in. If like the Supra system, the R/D is in a high pressure/discharge line, it's going to be hot like the compressed freon is. The reverse is true if the R/D is placed in a low pressure/suction line where the freon has mostly expanded, and now is a froth/gas being sucked back into the compressor to start over again.

Last but not least, is another misconception talked about here. Freon (in R12 or R134a form) is not easy to pump. The compressor oil is easy to pump around however, and it "chases" the freon through the system. (The oil moving around, tends to move the freon around with it. Not the freon moving the oil as stated in this thread.)

Best of luck, but I think you totally screwed up your system with the oil and R134a experiment. (Our systems were designed for R12, and should have R12 in them to be the most effective.)
 

Supra Blues

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Mar 30, 2005
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As mention before (figgie), I knew what I was doing was not the ideal way to fix/diagnose my problem. But, not having a vaccum (sp) pump to test the system limits my capabilities to do so.

I did research here (not much on SM yet so I figured I would start an A/C thread for future users to search for) and on SF. I knew I would have to replace certain parts, but why would I replace parts, if I find that the system won't hold because of some stupid schrader valve leaking. Plus, after my research, I knew that the system being open to the atmosphere for a year was really not good (read first post) and that the receiver/dryer would have to be replaced anyways.

I will state again that once I determine that it will hold, I am going to go through it, replace parts, rings, etc and take it to an A/C professional to have them evac the system and either put in R-12 or R-134a, probabaly the latter as the R-12 is so expensive. At that time I will also tell the A/C guy the current status of it so he can give me advice, but I see no sense in taking it to a pro right now, for him to tell me that a schrader valve is leaking and that all my R-12 just leaked out again.

Six months ago I spent $300 to have someone look at my R-12 system on my other car. $75 bucks for labor and the rest in R-12. They told me that because of the age of the system they could not warranty it. Sure enough two weeks later, the R-12 leaked out from some other area (an area they did not fix of course) and no more a/c for me. So it cost me $300 to have my a/c work for two weeks. Sorry I am not going to do that again. I can spend a couple hundred in parts for the Supra's A/C and do some of the stuff myself.

If doing it this way seems backwards and retarded, then maybe it is, but at least I have learned something. But, I learn from mistakes. One thing I learned here today is that Figgie is useless for advice and has some serious issues, and Figgie must be perfect at everything he does and has never made a mistake in his life.

Figgie, you need therapy or at least get into some anger managment classes, or at the very least, grow up.
 

figgie

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Supra Blues said:
One thing I learned here today is that Figgie is useless for advice and has some serious issues, and Figgie must be perfect at everything he does and has never made a mistake in his life.

wow you do know me. I am perfect and I haven't ever made a mistake in my life. You sure you are not my long lost twin brother???

Supra Blues said:
Figgie, you need therapy or at least get into some anger managment classes, or at the very least, grow up.

I can't grow up anymore than what I have grown up. As for anger. OVer the inet? Don't be silly Dr. Watson.
 

rakkasan

Currahee!!
Mar 31, 2005
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figgie said:
wow you do know me. I am perfect and I haven't ever made a mistake in my life. You sure you are not my long lost twin brother???



I can't grow up anymore than what I have grown up. As for anger. OVer the inet? Don't be silly Dr. Watson.

Figgie, get a hobby, or at least a girlfriend that'll let you get a piece every once & a while.
 

figgie

Supramania Contributor
Mar 30, 2005
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rakkasan said:
Figgie, get a hobby, or at least a girlfriend that'll let you get a piece every once & a while.

terrible terrible assumption.. you know what they say about assuming..

it makes and ass out of you and ONLY you as it doesn't affect me any way shape or form.
 

mkiiSupraMan18

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Apr 1, 2005
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Damn....... you'd think you did that to his car...... I agree with the "Holy sh*t, what was I thinking?" approach to learning...... well, unless it's something really exspensive..... then things change pretty quick.

I'd go r-12 if you're gonna do it.... it's quite a bit colder.