550cc and Lexus AFM Question about power!

Turbo Habanero

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So i am going with the famous Lexus setup with my new turbo !

I am using Evo 8/9 560cc Injectors with the Lexus AFM.

My question is how much power have people laid down with these and when is the Duty cycle become maxed
 

oldsking

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Depends on your turbo size too. From what I have seen, a good 400-500hp is fine with these but when you have a large turbo that blows a lot of boost quickly then it is time to upgrade, like my current situation :)
 

Albert

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Has nothing to do how quickly you receive the boost. A larger tubo will flow more air at the the same PSI than a smaller turbo. at 10psi on a huge 67mm tubo, you will exceed the alloted CFM through the Air flow metter, cause it to hit fuel cut. the ECU just thinks you are pushing (20psi) when really youre at 10psi.
 

Turbo Habanero

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Albert;1793733 said:
I would say 340-360rwhp at 12-14psi
420-440rwhp at 18-20psi

Do you think that the 560's are going to allow 18psi with out hitting fuel cut?

My main concern is just being safe and not running out of Injector flow.

Thanks for replying everyone
 

Turbo Habanero

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CajunKenny;1793783 said:
What octane fuel? Injection of any kind?

Just 91 i want to stay 91 through the whole build just because its easy access. No injection but i do have a AEM water/meth kit (5gallon) sitting in a box but i think im gonna use that on the All Trac
 

Albert

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Turbo Habanero;1793778 said:
Do you think that the 560's are going to allow 18psi with out hitting fuel cut?

My main concern is just being safe and not running out of Injector flow.

Thanks for replying everyone

Guys correct me if I'm wrong.

You don't hit fuel cut because you run out of injector, you hit fuel cut because you're exceeding the cfm allowed through the AFM. So fuel cut or 560s won't tell you if you are running out of fuel. You're gonna need some type of tuner to data log inj duty.

Going with the Lexus AFM pushes you're fuel cut further out.(came off a bigger motor) You can now run up to 20psi or whatever it is(based off what size turbo you're running)

Adding the 560s just even out the fuel to air ratio, or gets it close. I highly recommend a tuner, like a SAFC to dial it in. Sometimes that combo runs lean, sometimes they run rich.
 

Turbo Habanero

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Albert;1793810 said:
Guys correct me if I'm wrong.

You don't hit fuel cut because you run out of injector, you hit fuel cut because you're exceeding the cfm allowed through the AFM. So fuel cut or 560s won't tell you if you are running out of fuel. You're gonna need some type of tuner to data log inj duty.

Going with the Lexus AFM pushes you're fuel cut further out.(came off a bigger motor) You can now run up to 20psi or whatever it is(based off what size turbo you're running)

Adding the 560s just even out the fuel to air ratio, or gets it close. I highly recommend a tuner, like a SAFC to dial it in. Sometimes that combo runs lean, sometimes they run rich.

I think you are right makes since.

I just got rid of my SAFC but i plan on going MAFT pro. but without any thing to tell me the Duty cycle how can i make sure i'm safe

Can i just keep a close on eye on the AFR's making sure im running around 11 AFR just to be extra safe.
 

Albert

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You won't run out of injector.

It's the untuned motor I would be worried about.

Jason made 517rwhp on PT67 with 264 cams. With 550cc injectors.

You'll be fine with the ct26 60-1
 

Turbo Habanero

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Albert;1793822 said:
You won't run out of injector.

It's the untuned motor I would be worried about.

Jason made 517rwhp on PT67 with 264 cams. With 550cc injectors.

You'll be fine with the ct26 60-1

ok cool so as long as i make sure to keep my AFR's on the richer side until i get a tuner i should be fine.

Thanks Albert
 

Dan_Gyoba

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Well, it's kind of the same, but kind of not.

It really is injector duty cycle that determines fuel cut.

This is why on otherwise stock engines with just boost control, people living in Seatle, WA will hit FCO at 10 PSI (Very near sea level) and people in Calgary, AB can get to 14 PSI (~3800 ft altitude) with engines otherwise the same. The car in Calgary is getting more pressure, and more CFM, but the same MASS of air as the car at lower altitude, which means similar injector duty cycle. If that car is driven down to the coast without changing the boost controller, it will start hitting FCO a lot sooner.

The displacement of the Lexus engine isn't the issue, it's that the AFM body is larger, therefore it lies to the ECU, telling it that there's less air than there really is. The ECU then sets the duty cycle for the injectors based on that lower result, and gets more fuel than it expects. The result is that we get about the right amount of fuel, so the O2 sensor feedback tells the ECU that it's all fine (Assuming closed loop mode.)

Lots of people running pretty high boost numbers with the Lexus AFM / 550cc injectors, and making the kind of power that you'd expect.

I'm pretty sure that there is pretty good information on the MAFT Pro tuning with 550cc (Or indeed many other size) injectors. I was under the impression that what the MAFT Pro did (Among other things) was basically take the place of the AFM. It tells the stock system how much air would be coming in the AFM based on a different sensor, like a MAP sensor, so you aren't really changing engine management, or directly setting injector duty cycle. I believe that it also puts out a signal for the O2 sensor which can be tweaked based on a wideband, so you can tell the ECU to run a little bit lean in closed loop mode, in order to save fuel.
 

Nick M

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Dan, did you have a brain fart?

It really is injector duty cycle that determines fuel cut.

This is why on otherwise stock engines with just boost control, people living in Seatle, WA will hit FCO at 10 PSI (Very near sea level) and people in Calgary, AB can get to 14 PSI (~3800 ft altitude) with engines otherwise the same. The car in Calgary is getting more pressure, and more CFM, but the same MASS of air as the car at lower altitude, which means similar injector duty cycle. If that car is driven down to the coast without changing the boost controller, it will start hitting FCO a lot sooner.

The above is not duty cycle (on time). That is air flow meter giving different readings at different altitudes. It would do that if you had 440s, 550s, or 680s installed.
 

oldsking

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Where do we find info on the range of the maf works through? Im running mapecu curently and i have seen if I increase to much it will hit fuel cut quickly so yes just raising fuel doesnt work lol
 

Turbo Habanero

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oldsking;1794069 said:
Where do we find info on the range of the maf works through? Im running mapecu curently and i have seen if I increase to much it will hit fuel cut quickly so yes just raising fuel doesnt work lol
What ecu are you using ? Or are you using maft pro or a vpc?
 

terrenceLP

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I would like to add that with the Lexus AFM & no piggyback you will be off in some areas and adjusting your afpr will not fix it -

If you go MAFT-Pro the Lexus/AFM is unnecessary as you can go Speed Density. In SD mode the MAFT-Pro will Scale the KF signal to what ever you set max TPS volts to so it never goes out of bounds and making the ecu throw a code.

MAFT-Pro also let's you view the VF of the injectors, 0.0v - 5.0v - this is a great indicator of Closed Loop Operations as you want roughly 2.00v for cruising & Idle.

Maft-Pro also has Enhanced Throttle Position triggers, meaning based on a "AND" or "OR" conditions via RPM's & TPS - I have mine in ETP Mode 2 meaning TPS AND RPM conditions have to be met to activate Open Loop and once in open loop your pulling from your MAFT-Pro tune.

I ran the Lexus mod first and it ran rich @22psi of fuel pressure at idle(stock idle range) - it also felt weak on the upper end compared to my MAFT-Pro set up. Also keep in mind you will want Timing Control - MAFT-Pro offers that as well! If you plan on pushing mega boost you'll want to pull timing up top.

All in all the MAFT-Pro is a great little box, better than most Piggybacks and priced well. It's a great step up before going full stand alone. yeah you can't dial in the Perfect tune... but who can ! It get's close enough for a daily driven 400 HP of Fun!

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