4pot Caliper Question

[Suprastic]

Im looking at getting a BBK for my supra and have looked at all the options. I currently have axxis metal master pads and oem brembo x-drilled rotors. I noticed that Endless makes a 4pot caliper that can be used with the stock rotors. For over $2k from HPF I don't think it's worth it when all you get is the calipers and mounting hardware for front only. I did find that HPF has universal Precision 4pot calipers for the rear for ~$400/pair. Will these work with the oem rotors, and does any other brke company make specific 4pot calipers that can be used with oem MK3 rotors. Right now I don;t want to replace my rotors since they only have 5000mi on them, but my calipers are acting up and I'd like to upgrade them to 4pot. BTW, I don't want to do the 300zx retrofit. I thought I remembered seeing Willwood 4pot on stock rotors. All suggestion are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[ma71supraturbo]

Im looking at getting a BBK for my supra and have looked at all the options. I currently have axxis metal master pads and oem brembo x-drilled rotors. I noticed that Endless makes a 4pot caliper that can be used with the stock rotors. For over $2k from HPF I don't think it's worth it when all you get is the calipers and mounting hardware for front only.

As much as I like Endless, I agree.

I did find that HPF has universal Precision 4pot calipers for the rear for ~$400/pair. Will these work with the oem rotors, and does any other brke company make specific 4pot calipers that can be used with oem MK3 rotors.

Unfortunately no to both. You would need adapter brackets to make them work (as well as custom brake lines), and aside from Endless, no one makes a caliper-only upgrade. Precision's entire big brake kit (with rotors) does cost less than the Endless caliper-only upgrade though.

 

[Suprastic]

Precision's entire big brake kit (with rotors) does cost less than the Endless caliper-only upgrade though.

Thats what didn't make any sense to me. There are a few kits that are much cheaper than the endless caliper only kit. Wilwood and Precision are the two manufactures that I'm aware of the makes a front kit with everything for ~$1300. Is there a quality issue, is Endless that good of a product over these other two complete kits, or is Endless just over priced.

I guess my only option is the 300zx retrofit, but I may aswell spend the extra $$ and get a complete set.

 

[paddlenbike]

I sure wish there was a cheap and easy way to do this, my 2000 4Runner uses massive 4-pot calipers that will fit under no less than a 16" wheel...

 

[williamb82]

hotrodheaven.com, guy has the jim king 4 piston bbk for $900 for front or rear. mkii or mkiii. just got a quote as im thinking of getting the rears to go with my fronts.

 

[supra90turbo]

hotrodheaven.com, guy has the jim king 4 piston bbk for $900 for front or rear. mkii or mkiii. just got a quote as im thinking of getting the rears to go with my fronts.

are they on the site? i couldnt find them... if so, could you link us? thanks

 

[IJ.]

To give you an idea I spent just over 6K AUD/ 4.4K USD for the Hardware only as I made the rest of the mounts and modified the Mk4TT Rotors to suit.

AP Racing 4 spot callipers
Pads
DBA Mk4TT Rotors
Goodridge lines
New Master Cylinder

 

[williamb82]

he doesnt have the part number listed. email them and tell them what you want. they have it. trust me, i just got the quote yesterday, uses wilwood 4 piston calipers with 1.75in pistons and wilwood rotors. do a search on supraforums for the jim king bbk group buy, should give all the specs for the mkiii. i only know the ones for the mkii as thats what i have. also, iirc they have a kit thats a bit more for the front of the mkiii that uses 6 piston wilwood calipers. ask for a quote on those as well. includes the calipers, pads, brackets, hats, rotors, and i think the brake line adaptors though dont quote me on that part. lines are the only thing im unsure of.

edit. pics of the jk bbk with 4 piston calipers

http://www.mk3.us/steve/brakes/

and the thread

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90810&highlight=jim+king+brakes

looks liek dr j has the same kit

 

[ma71supraturbo]

Is there a quality issue, is Endless that good of a product over these other two complete kits, or is Endless just over priced.

There is a little bit of a quality issue. For example, the Precision/Wilwood brake lines do not have the little tabs to run through the factory holders... But the majority of it is a mass-production issue. Wilwood has hundreds of thousands of those calipers on the market and use them on many different applications. Endless has a much smaller catalog of applications, and sells much fewer kits. They also have a full racing budget and sponsor many cars and races. When Endless made the kits for the MK3, they were undoubtedly put on the track and lapped while they made adjustments. Wilwood got a car on the lift, made brackets to fit it -- made sure it didn't drag and had as much clearance as possible, and maybe drove around the block. They work 99% as well and cost 1/2 of Endless...

 

[Ckanderson]

i ordered a set of precision brakes... ill let ya know how well they work... soon as the car runs!

 

[ma71supraturbo]

i ordered a set of precision brakes... ill let ya know how well they work... soon as the car runs!

Only complaints about the kits I've heard have been directed at the brake lines. Overall, I think you'll really like them

 

[Adjuster]

I have one of the first full 14" rotor PB setups for the MK3.

Uses custom Wilwood rotors, further drilled out between the hats and the swept area, slotted and using 6 piston GNIII front calipers, and 4 piston Forged Billet dynalites in the back.

Rotors are 14x1.38 front, and 14x1.25 rear. Custom hats in the rear allow for stock parking brake use. (A nice feature.)

They work great, the lines suck as noted, no stock mounting tabs, so break out the fuel line, electrical tape and zip ties. Cut short sections of the line, then slit it down the side, slip it over the brake lines where they pass through the mounting tabs, and then electrical tape them in place, then secure them with zip ties to the tabs. Ghetto to the extreme, but effective.

Also I've had some issues with pad material being unevenly deposited on the rotors, and one rotor that "dragged" or acted like it was warped straight out of the box. (It is true, but the zinc wash on the rotor is not, and caused the problem untill I removed it completely with a few 3M roloc grinder pads on the swept area faces.)

Since I cleaned up the swept area faces, and removed the zinc, they are working great now. (no pulsing feel at all.)

One other slight problem has been a unbalanced condition at speed now. (Has to be the rotors, nothing else was changed, and the car used to be very smooth at speed, now it has a vibration anywhere over 60 to 65 mph. I'm going to pull the rotors/hats and see if I can get them balanced. I bet they are off by quite a bit. Wilwood balances them, but where PB drilled out the rotors, and removed some material on the back side, I doubt they are in balance anymore.)

Am I picky? You bet, and you would be too if you spent about 4000.00 on your brakes. (As IJ noted, they are not cheap, but you get what you pay for, not many other brakes are going to slow your 4000lb or more Supra from 140+ mph a few times and last to tell the tale. These brakes will do that many times and be fade free unless your completely insane on your brake abuse.

 

[Ckanderson]

^ so how do they feel though ?

 

[Adjuster]

Feel? They feel to me slightly less responsive than stock for the travel, but you can modulate what they are doing better than stock by a large margin. (You do have to push the pedal down further, but it never bottems out that I've noticed. It also stops the car on a dime, every time with no going to the floor or any other problems.

Main problems.
1) Shitty brake lines.
2) Uneven zinc coating on the rotors.
3) Unbalanced rotor/hat assembly.

Minor problems.
1) Took forever to get this kit done. (Myself and 2 others that I know of were the first to go with the full kit, so the rear setup was completly prototype.) One in the US, one in Russia and the other is in Scandinavia somewhere. The russian dude is having some serious problems with his, and is looking for a source of Wilwood rotors elsewhere/anywhere other than PB since he will not do business with them anymore.
2) After I installed mine, and had problems with the pulse effect, due to the long time period between when I fineally got them, and my car running again, PB says they can't warrenty the rotors, since I could have hot lapped them and done the damage myself. I respect this position, it was a long time, but they totally screwed themselves since I tend to document the heck out of everything, and clearly they are not very carefull about quality control, fitment issues, and customer service after the sale.

Basicly, if you want custom big brakes, and are willing to do some R&D work yourself, these PB ones are very cost effective.

If you want brakes that bolt on, are problem free and seem to work right out of the box, I'd go with KVR, Brembo or some other supplier like Endless where the bugs have been worked out of the system/product prior to your coming into contact with it. (Cost is much higher however.)

Will I ever do business with PB again? Not really sure, but I doubt it. I don't plan on ever replacing my rotors, but If I did need them, I'd try and source them directly from Wilwood, and have them machined locally where I can just take them back if there are problems to resolve them. (Like the balance thing, or the zinc coating thing should not have been an issue that I have to resolve when I've spent 4000.00 on brakes with a company.)