1 bar is fun

westonboege

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May 25, 2005
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Well finally got the last of my parts I was waiting on. Got a new set of magnecore wires and ngk plugs last night. Went out today and started messing with my greddy profec b that i got working again. Set it up for about 15psi and man.... this thing screams.... Whenever i get sick of working on the car or fixing problems... i go for a drive and its all worth it. No traction in 1st or 2nd... time for some 285's

I still got some questions though. Im getting my boost to hit 15 psi... and i adjusted the gain so it wouldnt taper off at higher rpm... but full boost isnt coming on until like 4500 rpm... My settings seem really wierd on the boost controller, seem really high. The set is at almost 55% and the gain is at like 24%... the setgain is only at like 89... If i turn the set gain up anymore i spike to like 16 or 17psi and hit fuel cut...

Do i need to turn the setgain up and lower the set %?

Also ... how much boost can the HKS SSQV hold? Mine is sounding wicked at 15psi.. Good wicked.. but i just wanna make sure its not gonna die on me..
 

westonboege

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May 25, 2005
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by setgain... i was referring to the start boost... In the manual it calls it start boost and on the actual controller its setgain i believe...

its set at 89... which should be 8.9psi right?
 

87_7MGTE

SOLD :(
Mar 30, 2005
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Bellingham, WA
what turbo are you running? does your ssqv still make the "chirp" noise?

tell me what you find out about the settings, im trying to tune mine right now, and i think they are waay off. if i find something, ill tell you what i find.
 

westonboege

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May 25, 2005
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im runnin the lipp/boss TO4E 54 trim... my blow off valve doesnt chirp anymore unless im like 1/2 throttle and let off.. Full boost it makes more of a pterodactyl screech..
 

87_7MGTE

SOLD :(
Mar 30, 2005
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Bellingham, WA
hmm, mine makes no noise now, almost like surge... i dont know why. anywho, i get off work in a little bit and im going to go play with the EBC (the same you have) and ill see what i find.
 

Bishop92t

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Apr 18, 2005
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Don't know anything about your car, so its hard to help with the boost controller problem. What size turbo, intercooler, exhaust, intake, Profec B or Profec B Spec II?

I've been running 16-20psi on a 57 trim CT/ with my SSQV for about 3 years now with no problems.
 

supra90turbo

shaeff is FTMFW!
Mar 30, 2005
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westonboege said:
by setgain... i was referring to the start boost... In the manual it calls it start boost and on the actual controller its setgain i believe...

its set at 89... which should be 8.9psi right?

I gotta find my manual, then I'll see what I come up with
 

westonboege

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May 25, 2005
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oh... my mods are:

3" full turbo back exhaust...apexi intake
spearco i/c with 2.5" hardpipes
lipp/boss TO4E 54 turbo rated for 450hp
alum. driveshaft
550cc injectors... lex afm... afpr..
safc II
greddy profec b spec II
innovative wideband with datalogging
spec stage one clutch
magnecore wires ngk plugs
walbro fuel pump
 

hottscennessey

DONT BE A BITCH!
Jun 3, 2005
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87_7MGTE said:
hmm, mine makes no noise now, almost like surge... i dont know why. anywho, i get off work in a little bit and im going to go play with the EBC (the same you have) and ill see what i find.

You may have a blown BOV, I've rarely heard of this happening with the SSQV, but it is possible to blow it. My HKS bypass valve wouldnt blow off, so i took it apart and found I popped the diaphram.
 

Bishop92t

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Apr 18, 2005
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Hmm, you could possibly have a small boost leak which is causing slower spool. I'm assuming since you've got a wideband that you have your A/F's somewhat reasonable. Could also just be a tuning issue with the Profec B Spec II, I haven't gotten the chance to tune one myself yet but from what I've seen it's more similar to the Profec E-01 in functionality then to the original Profec B. Leave the start boost alone (0) until you're able to get a stable boost curve with the gain and set boost functions. Once your boost is how you want it, the start boost should be about .2-.3 bar less then your desired maximum boost.
 

chriso

Supranian
Apr 5, 2005
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This is a good thread so far since I am going throught the exact same thing with my profec-b. I just don't understand the gain thing.
 

westonboege

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May 25, 2005
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i feel the bar hoppin...

no but... my air fuels are still pretty fat... gettin like 10.5-10.9 at a bar of boost... this is how i tuned the profec spec II...

I turned set up to about 20%... then i turned gain up to like 10%... kept turnin up the set, so the max boost would hit 15 then... tried to adjust the gain to keep it from fallin off at high rpms... then i turned up the start boost until i started spiking... the i turned it back some...

it just seems like my set is really high... hmm... i guess if the wastegate is set at 10psi... 50% of that is like 5psi...

im just wondering if i can turn the start boost up some more and then lower the set and gain to get better response...

its raining here today or i would be out boostin... rain sucks

Oh yeah, im almost 100% on no boost leaks... when i put the new turbo on i built some hardpipes and pressure tested them and my spearco intercooler at like 40psi... all new couplers all tightened correctly...
 

Bishop92t

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Apr 18, 2005
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Try the gain at 0, then work up 1-2 units at a time. On most boost controllers the gain (or equivelant) is pretty touchy. On my car for example, 5 was the perfect gain on my Profec e-01. Other then that, the start boost is only useful for the initial boost, if set incorrectly it will cause boost spiking. If the car seems laggy with the start boost set then you've got either a mechanical problem or you've got unrealistic expectations of your car.

FYI my "set" is around 70% to run 16psi on a 57 trim. Turbo as well as other mods can change that dramatically. Personally I wouldn't worry about the set value until it starts to approach 100, at that point you've exceeded some mechanical limit or you've got a malfunction.
 

chriso

Supranian
Apr 5, 2005
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"Boost Spiking" ? I take it that is when you get a very rapid boost pressure? Should you see a gradual rise in pressure? I am still trying to grasp all of this? Why would you want the wastegate to start to open at around 5psi. Wouldn't you want it to open at your maximum boost setting? What exactly is the "gain" value for?
 

chriso

Supranian
Apr 5, 2005
917
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Bay Area, CA
I may have already found my answer - google is your friend !!! (I didn't write this, I just cut and pasted).

How does a electronic boost controller work?

First, let us understand how a turbo works. A turbo simply consists of an exhaust wheel and a compressor wheel connected together, exhaust gases from the combustion turns the exhaust wheel which in turn spins the compressor wheel. The compressor wheel then crams more air into the intake, creating boost pressure.

If left alone, a turbo would just keep spinning faster and faster and could result in too much boost, which would cause engine components to fail. To regulate the amount of boost, wastegates are equipped on all turbo-charged cars. The purpose of the wastegate is to divert some of the exhaust away from the turbo (so it won't spin the exhaust wheel). A wastegate is simply a spring loaded valve, this valve opens when the intake pressure reaches a certain pressure and diverts some of the exhaust away from the turbo. Suppose the wastegate is designed to open at 7PSI of boost, then when boost reaches 7.1PSI, the valve opens and the exhaust from the cylinders are diverted away from the turbos, and the turbo starts to slow down. When the boost drops to 6.9PSI, the wastegate closes and the turbo starts to speed up again. This happens rapidly and keeps boost regulated nicely at 7PSI.

The pressure at which the wastegate opens is the base boost pressure, installing a boost controllers will allow you to run higher boost. An electronic boost controller usually works using a solenoid (electronically controlled) valve. A solenoid valve would have 3 ports (sometimes 1 is hidden inside the housing), and 1 port goes to the wastegate, the other port is hooked up to the intake, and the last port is left open to the atmosphere. The solenoid can switch between connecting the wastegate port to the intake port, or connecting the wastegate port to the atmosphere port.

Suppose you want to run 14PSI of boost, then a electronic boost controller should do this -- when the boost reaches 14.1PSI, the solenoid will connect the wastegate to the intake, causing the wastegate to open (since 14PSI is higher than the 7PSI required to open the wastegate)... the turbo will start slowing down, when it drops to 13.9PSI, the boost controller will then switch the solenoid and connect the wastegate to the atmosphere. This causes the wastegate to close since the atmosphere is 0PSI lower than the 7PSI needed to open the wastegate, and the turbo will start speeding up again. This happens rapidly and keeps boost regulated nicely at 14PSI.

Most boost controllers accomplish this by figuring out what percentage (or ratio) of the time the solenoid would connect the wastegate to the atmosphere vs. connecting the wastegate to the intake. This ratio is often known as the DUTY CYCLE, the duty cycle is directly related to the boost level.

Now this is the main function of the boost controller, but there is another benefit to running a electronic boost controller, and that is it will allow the turbos to spool up a little faster. How does it do this? Well, a wastegate might be designed to open at 7PSI, but it usually cracks open a little even before the pressure hits 7PSI. This will slow down spoolup of the turbo, causing it to hit 7PSI a little later. A good electronic boost controller would keep the wastegate shut for as long as possible, by using the solenoid to connect the wastegate to the atmosphere (0PSI) till the turbo gets really close to hitting the boost you want, only then it will start switching the solenoid back and forth according to the duty cycle. To determine how long to keep the wastegate shut, most electronic boost controllers use a number known as GAIN. If the gain is set too high, the boost could spike (the wastegate is held closed a little too long causing overboost), but if the gain is set too low, the spoolup is not as optimal as it could be. Getting the correct gain setting will give the optimal spoolup of your turbos.

Manual mode vs. automatic mode vs. fuzzy logic

Most of the modern higher-end electronic boost controllers have an automatic mode or fuzzy logic, where you simply enter the boost you want to reach, and the boost controller would automatically try to figure out the DUTY CYCLE and/or GAIN. In certain cases (eg. twin-turbo setups), this logic might not work very well, and it would be necessary to use the manual mode.

How to set up an electronic boost controller in manual mode

In manual mode, there are two numbers that has to be determined: DUTY CYCLE (sometimes also labelled as SET) and GAIN. The optimal gain number always depends on the boost level you want to run, if you are running very high boost, then you want the wastegate held closed for a longer time since it takes a longer time to reach the higher boost. So the first step is to determine the duty cycle:

1. Start off with a low DUTY CYCLE and GAIN setting.

2. In a higher gear (3rd or 4th), run the car to see what boost level the duty cycle corresponds to by watching what steady/stable boost level is reached. Increment the DUTY CYCLE with each run till you reach the boost level you want. Fine tune as necessary. If you notice boost spikes, then you have set the gain too high, you do not want spikes at this point since that makes it more difficult to see the steady/stable boost level.

The reason why you should use the higher gears is because in the low gears, things can happen too fast to figure out what the steady/stable boost level is. Now that you have figured out the duty cycle that will give you the boost level you want, the next thing to do is to work out the gain:

3. Make runs in lower gear (1st or 2nd), increment gain with each run till you see boost spikes. Then fine tune it till there is little or no boost spike. This is your optimum gain setting for that boost level.

The reason why you should use the lower gear now is because boost builds much quicker in the lower gears, so there is a higher tendency to boost spike.

When setting your boost controller, always have a passenger set the controller and watch the boost gauge for you, the driver should keep his eyes on the road!

Common problem

Sometimes if the gain is set too high, it may appear to have the same effect as the duty cycle. If you notice (especially in the higher gears) that you initially hit the boost level you want, but then it starts tapering off, then you might have set the gain too high and the duty cycle is not set correctly. Or you might have a boost leak...
Here is the link where I found this info:
http://www.splparts.com/doc/tech/EBC.htm
 

westonboege

New Member
May 25, 2005
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yeah it should... i went out last and lowered the set and gain but raised the start boost to about 11psi... worked great.. .shot up to 15psi at about 4k rpms.. and holds it all the way to redline...

i found an article similar to that on a evo board.. good reading if you have a greddy unit..

thanks for all the help guys